Noob Help Please

[kc89]

Hi every1 i was jw if some1 wouldn't mind giving me the in-depth info of how to place the lay/back bets and understand it please.

I was going to register to BETFAIR + BETDAQ,

For example yday i was browsing and come across the odd for the CHELSEA V STOKE 10/3/12.

On the BETDAQ website BACKING STOKE = 12.0
On the BETFAIR website LAYING STOKE = 12.0

is this good and can some1 please tell me what would happen please and help me out lol?

[Admin]

It's probably easiest if you leave betdaq for now and concentrate on using betfair for all your lay bets. When you're comfortable come back to betdaq and use that either for a back bet or a lay bet.
The bookies (including the above) have a free bet offer for new customers.

First look at someone like William Hill, Betfred or Ladbrokes.
Click on either one from the front page and you will see a banner to join then from, a review and beneath that an oddsmatcher function (most have this but a few don't).
At the top of the oddsmatcher you will see the best matches (where back and lay odds are the closest). The back odds will be for the bookie in question and the lay odds will be either for betdaq or betfair.

Next use the money calculator (top right of the home page) to to input the odds and qualifying/free bet stake amount to see how much you need the lay bet to be at betfair.

For your above example (if your qualifying bet was £25 eg at William Hill) you would need to lay £25.10 on Stoke at betfair. Since this is a qualifying bet you input 0 in the stake forfeit box as your stake is returned in full (i.e.zero stake forfeit).

You'll see that at these odds your £25 stake at Will Hill stands to win £300 and you would then also lose £276.15 at betfair (so you need to have at least this much deposited there). Either way you'll get a net return of £23.85 regardless if either your back or lay bet wins). So on your £25 bet at Will Hill you only get £23.85 back = £1.15 loss BUT you now have a free £25 bet from William Hill.

[kc89]

So i need to register to betfair + 1 other website.
Deposit 'x' amount in each account to recieve 'x' amount free bet.
then which website do i lay/back ? and i don't understand why i would lose 'x' amount in 1 account and gain in the other.

[Admin]

If you're just starting out then you probably dont want to put over £300 into betfair straight away so the answer is to look for odds which are lower than 12. Eg back and lay odds of 1.5 each only requires a lay stake of £25.86 but this means your lay risk is only £12.93 (so you only need to deposit £13 at betfair. Also at these odds your return on the £25 qualifying bet is £24.57 - so your free bet of £25 has cost you just 43 pence.

When it come to placing your free bet you need to look at odds over 6 because your free bet is SNR or stake not returned.

For odds of 6 and 6 for the back and lay (remember your free back stake is £25 so input your stake forfeit to £25) the calculator says your lay stake is 21.01. Your lay risk is now £105.04 so this is how much you'll need deposited at betfair. The profit from this bet is £19.96 regardless of which bet wins/loses so if you also deduct the 43 pence it cost to buy the free bet your total profit is £19.53.

If you re read the tutorial and play around with the calculator it should help a bit. Do a dry run and post your intentions here before hand and someone will check them for you. Theres no need to rush as mistakes can be costly.

[Admin]

So i need to register to betfair + 1 other website.
Deposit 'x' amount in each account to recieve 'x' amount free bet.
then which website do i lay/back ? and i don't understand why i would lose 'x' amount in 1 account and gain in the other.

Yes pick any bookie to join plus you'll also need to join betfair as this is where you'll be placing your lay bets.

Deposit whatever amount the bookie says you need to eg £25 if your joining William Hill.

You back bet at the bookie and lay bet at betfair. Because these bets are exact opposites eg back Liverpool (to win) and lay Liverpool (to not win) you will always win one bet and lose the other. You can't win both and thats the point. You win one and lose one so your cancel each of them out. For your first bet (back and lay) this is all your own money so by cancelling each other out you're making sure you can't lose (well a few pence is the usual "cost") but for this you've now "gambled" in the eyes on the bookie (they don't know about your lay bet at betfair) so now you've "qualified" for the free bet.

Now by doing the same back\lay again - but this time only the lay bet is your own money as the free bet is the bookies gift to you - you'll always lock in a profit

[kc89]

ok that makes a little more sense but if i win @ betfair then i win:-
1 - My stake back
2 - The profit from the odds
3 - Free bet (Depending on the sum)

And on WH i would just lose my bet but possible get a free bet depending on the some, why previously did u say i could possibly lose

also the lay stake is a little confusing for me im sory for the inconvenience.

I just thought i bet 25 on each website, 1 wins, 1 losses eg both odds 1.5

1website lose my 25 bet the other win 37.50...and then the 5percent deposit

[kc89]

does this also mean that i have to keep transferring money from 1 account to another.

I am a litle dyslexic so would appreciate a step by step guide in as basic as possible lol

would like info on how lay risk is calculated and why a lump some is taken from betfair if your lay bet loses and not just the same sum as what you bet in WH

and can some1 explain qualifying bets and free bets to make thins clear please, so much terminology in my head its confusing

[Admin]

The whole point of the qualifying bet is: you don't win or lose. You know before hand that by betting on all the outcomes (back and lay bet) that you will get the same money returned to you regardless of what happens.

You will lose one either your back or lay bet and you will win the other. Win one /lose one= no profit or loss.

What you might lose in betfair is not what you bet at William hill- it's what you stand to win. The return of your bookie bet will be the same as your lay risk not your lay stake. What you win at the bookie you will lose at betfair and vice versa .

[kc89]

so with both odds 1.5 and both 25pound bets,

1 bet wins 37.50 real money + 'x'amount free bet
1 bet loses how much?

the lay risk confuses me, i dont get for example why i need the lay risk amount in an account incase of the bet losing when iv already bet 25lay 25back.

there needs to be a step by step guide so people understand better.
whats the diff between free/qualyfing bet, is one preffered over the other?

i understand i stand to lose a small fee from the 1st lay/back bet.but how and why, this is what makes no sense to me

[Admin]

There is a step by step guide via the main site.

The lay bet is you acting as the bookie. You will only win your stake back but you could lose a lot more depending on the odds.

The reason you usually lose a small amount on your qualifying bet is because betfair charge 5% commission on your winnings so you have to take this into account. That and the differences in the odds. Where the lay odds are lower than the back odds (arb) it's possible to reduce your losses or actually turn a small profit.

Keep re reading the tutorial over and over. Not many people "get it" straight away.